Week 11 Discussion Questions–Women and Feminism

1.  Based on your reading of the documents in the section “New Careers in Medicine and Science” in Chapter 10 of Lives and Voices, with reference to the introductory materials and their own writings, compare the medical and scientific careers pursued by Florence Nightingale, Sophia Jex-Blake, and Marie Curie.  What common issues and obstacles did they confront as women?  What circumstances and initiatives enabled them to overcome these obstacles?  Consider women’s current status in medicine and science.  What has changed and what remains the same?

2.   Based on your reading of the documents in the section “Critiques of Marriage, Sexual Norms, and Women’s Fashion” in Chapter 10 of Lives and Voices, discuss the main points of Harriet Martineau’s critique of women’s dress.  What does she propose as an alternative?  Why did dress reform become a feminist issue?

3.  Based on your reading of the documents in the section “Critiques of Marriage, Sexual Norms, and Women’s Fashion” in Chapter 10 of Lives and Voices, what were Josephine Butler’s views on prostitution and how were they informed by her religious convictions?  On what basis did she argue for the repeal of the Contagious Diseases Acts?

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6 thoughts on “Week 11 Discussion Questions–Women and Feminism

  1. Alison Cook

    Page 354

    4.) Florence Nightingale’s medical career began in the nursing field. She began reforms for healthier hospital conditions for healing soldiers during the Crimean War.
    Sophia Jex-Blake’s career became prominent when she pushed better education in the medical field for women. She wanted more women to become full-fledged doctors.
    Marie Curie was a Polish woman who began her medical career in radioactivity. In France her research led her to win the Nobel Peace Prize.

    Common issues that these women confronted were the limits that women had in the medical field. They pushed themselves in the career path they wanted to be in.
    Circumstances that allowed them to overcome these obstacles came in different ways depending on the women. They all showed a great interest and natural ability at science, so they each used their great abilities with a little bit of luck to persevere in a male dominated profession.

    Currently women are allowed equal access in all the medical fields. What remains the same are the stereotypes that the older generation might still have associated with women working in their minds.

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    2.) The critique of women’s dress is that it must cover the body and be practical. It has to be practical in that it shelters the body from the elements and should be modest and not outlandish looking.
    Harriet Martineau says that the modern dress is none of these things. As an alternative, she proposes that a reform be put in place; the regulation that such dresses were to never be made.

    Dress reform became a feminist issue because the way women began to dress was seen as either acceptable or unacceptable by society. This meant that there were new standards to add on to the many things women had to live up to.

    3.) Josephine Butler’s views on prostitution were mainly of sympathy. She wanted English women to not be afraid of the prostitutes and understand the situations in which these women were placed in.
    They were informed by her religious convictions because she realized these women and men were sinning but she also knew the reality of the world that she and the others were living in. There was no way around prostituting.

    The basis in which she argued for the repeal of the Contagious Diseases Acts began with their implemented laws. These laws only fed the vices of the men. The diseases that were carried were known to affect the people involved with or without these laws. If someone was found harboring a contagious disease they were placed in a hospital, which while there could be passed on to another person.

  2. 1. Florence Nightingale studied nursing in Prussia and France and also served as a superintendent of a hospital. Florence treated wounded soldiers during Crimean War. Her career began when the British newspaper had photos of her treating the wounded soldiers. Sophia Jex-Blake was the first Englishwoman doctor. Sophia organized a medical school called London School of Medicine for Women. She also found another medical school for women that was only open for a short period of time. Marie Curie was the first woman that had won a Nobel Prize. She was elected into the Academy of Medicine.
    The common issues and obstacles they confronted as women would be how they were denied jobs because were women. Women would attempt to gain admission into the medical field, and then they would be denied because they were women. Women were looked down upon because it was more of a male occupation. Another thing that is common with these women is although they were each denied, they somehow made it possible to do what they loved and that was being a doctor somehow. The circumstances that enabled them to overcome these obstacles is when they would be denied they wouldnt give up. Most of these women would just go on their own and open up their own School of Medicine for Women.
    The things that have changed are women are now allowed to be in the medical fiel. Women are now treated as equal in the medical field. What stays the same is some people prefer to have men doctors because they feel they know more.

    2. Harriet says some of the main critiques of dress is to be covering all the parts of the body which need warmth or coolness. It should be a shelter from the atmosphere, heat, wet, and or damp. All of these are a main purpose of clothing. Martineau’s alternative is the modern dress is nothing like what it used to be. She says that the modern dress perverts the form very disagreeably. The dress reform became a feminist issue because of the way women would dress. Women before modern time didn’t have issues with dressing inappropriately. But now women do dress inappropriately to society and get glares and looks for the way they were dressing, because they felt they had to live up to the new styles of dress.

    Based on your reading of the documents in the section “Critiques of Marriage, Sexual Norms, and Women’s Fashion” in Chapter 10 of Lives and Voices, what were Josephine Butler’s views on prostitution and how were they informed by her religious convictions? On what basis did she argue for the repeal of the Contagious Diseases Acts?
    3. She wanted to make sure that prostitutes didn’t have any diseases. That is why she came up with the Contagious Diseases Acts. Many children were strayed away because of prostitution, there wasn’t really a way around it. They were informed by her religious convictions because, many of them fall into prostitution because of the lack of food, clothes, money and shelter. They may sin, but she knows that trying to survive during this without prostitution was impossible because they didn’t have any sort of income other then making it on the streets. She argued pretty strong for the repeal ofthe Contagious Disease Act. This Act gives power to police to watch over women, and girls.

  3. 1. Florence Nightingale began her medical career as a nurse. She helped wounded soldiers during the Crimean War. She was for reforms in the medical field such as sanitation. Sophia Jex-Blake started her medical career when she wanted to become a doctor but was restricted in Britain. She pushed for women to have access to more medical education so eventually they could become doctors. Marie Curie worked with elements. She discovered the element Radium and was eventually elected to the Academy of Medicine. These women had many obstacles and limits to overcome. They were denied entrance into schools and exams because they were women. Most medical jobs were seen as male jobs. They overcame these circumstances by pushing for reforms and equal opportunities even if that meant separate schools for them to learn in. these women loved what they did, which helped them to overcome the challenges they faced. Today women have full access into the medical field. If they want to be in the medical field they can.

    2. Martineau main points are that the dress of women harms them. The whalebone in the stays can cause internal injuries. She also believes that dress should be modest but appropriate for the occasion and weather. The alternative she proposes is that dress “should be light and subject to as few dangers and inconveniences as possible”. Dress became a feminist issue because women wanted to wear clothes that were appropriate to their occupations so that they can be more efficient and so they can stay in good health.

    3. Butler’s view on prostitution was of sympathy. She was sympathetic because she realized that most of the women who were prostitutes were not there because they wanted to. Many were there because they were either pushed into it or were there temporarily. Her views were informed by her religious convictions by saying that there is sin in the world and they cannot avoid it in society. In addition, she explains why women become prostitutes as them not having a virtuous mother to guide them away from prostitution and toward being pure. Her basis for the repeal of the Contagious Disease Acts was that men could keep on sinning because they were not subject to inspections as the women were. She also said that it was a way for men to spy on women and girls.

  4. 1. Based on your reading of the documents in the section “New Careers in Medicine and Science” in Chapter 10 of Lives and Voices, with reference to the introductory materials and their own writings, compare the medical and scientific careers pursued by Florence Nightingale, Sophia Jex-Blake, and Marie Curie. What common issues and obstacles did they confront as women? What circumstances and initiatives enabled them to overcome these obstacles? Consider women’s current status in medicine and science. What has changed and what remains the same?
    Each of the women faced struggles in their own right: Florence Nightingale faced men back home taking her job on the battlefield lightly, Sophia Jex-Blake faced not being allowed to take the exams to be a doctor, even after having completed the courses before hand, and Marie Curie was not allowed to take courses in her native Poland. Each woman was also able to overcome these obstacles for women through different ways: Nightingale applied to help during the Crimean War, Sophia Jex-Blake petitioned to take the exam, and when she wasn’t allowed, attempted to take the midwife exam instead, and Curie moved to France and studied in Paris. I think that currently, while there are women in all three fields, there is still a great shortage of women doctors and physicists, especially physicists.
    2. Based on your reading of the documents in the section “Critiques of Marriage, Sexual Norms, and Women’s Fashion” in Chapter 10 of Lives and Voices, discuss the main points of Harriet Martineau’s critique of women’s dress. What does she propose as an alternative? Why did dress reform become a feminist issue?
    Martineau believes that the fashion of the time, being tightly laced up in stays, is detrimental to women’s health, as it compresses the organs out of place and makes them susceptible to faint and even death. She proposes bloomers, something that the Americans have, that has led to fewer problems for women in factories. It becomes a feminist issue because women were dying in the factories from their tight corsetry.
    3. Based on your reading of the documents in the section “Critiques of Marriage, Sexual Norms, and Women’s Fashion” in Chapter 10 of Lives and Voices, what were Josephine Butler’s views on prostitution and how were they informed by her religious convictions? On what basis did she argue for the repeal of the Contagious Diseases Acts?
    Josephine Butler believed that these women were the victims of a societal circumstance, and that because of that; she believed that her religious convictions led her to help these women rather than condemn them. She argued for the repeal because it violated these women’s bodies, and it made any woman susceptible to scrutiny, and she felt that the last thing these women needed was to be violated again.

  5. 1. Florence Nightingale, Sophia Jex-Blake, and Marie Curie all pursued medical and scientific careers. Each woman had a different story as to how they came into the field and what they did. Florence Nightingale worked as a nurse who had helped wounded soldiers during the Crimean War. This led to her having to overcome the men at home who did not appreciate her role on the battlefield. Sophia Jex-Blake became a doctor, but was restricted in Britain. Therefore, she had to overcome these barriers. She pushed for more reforms that would allow women to become doctors in the future. Marie Curie worked in the science field. She discovered the element Radium. She was eventually elected into the Academy of Medicine. Before all of this, she was not allowed to take courses in Poland, her native country. Women’s current status in the fields of science and medicine has changed drastically. Mainly, this is because women now have full access to becoming doctors and scientists. Although, it stays the same in that fact that most people would want a male doctor or scientist because it is perceived that they would know more than women.
    2. Harriet Martineau’s main point in her critique of women’s dress was that it harms women. The corset caused the organs to be compressed and women had trouble breathing. For an alternative, Martineau suggests women wear bloomers. She gets this idea from the American women. Having women wear bloomers would create a safer working environment in the factories. Dress reform becomes a feminist issue because women had been dying in the factories, and something needed to change.
    3. Josephine Butler’s believed that women were victims. She was sympathetic toward the women because she had realized that the women did not become prostitutes by choice; most of
    the time it was because the women were pushed or forced into prostitution. Her religious views tied into this because she said that there was unavoidable sin in the world. She also believed that these religious convictions would lead her to help the women instead of condemning them. She argued for the repeal of the Contagious Diseases Acts because she believes that the conditions required for the tests were violating women’s bodies. She also argued for the repeal because it let the women who were prostitutes open to scrutiny in society and she said that women should not have to be violated again. The Contagious Diseases Acts gave police the power to “spy” on women and girls suspected of being prostitutes.

  6. 1. Based on your reading of the documents in the section “New Careers in Medicine and Science” in Chapter 10 of Lives and Voices, with reference to the introductory materials and their own writings, compare the medical and scientific careers pursued by Florence Nightingale, Sophia Jex-Blake, and Marie Curie. What common issues and obstacles did they confront as women? What circumstances and initiatives enabled them to overcome these obstacles? Consider women’s current status in medicine and science. What has changed and what remains the same?
    Florence Nightingale, according to both the introductory material and the assigned reading itself, played a key role in modernizing field hospitals. During the Crimean war she was an instrumental voice in the calling for cleaner , more organized , and overall more sanitary field hospitals. She did much to improve the professionalism of her nursing staff and hospital at large. She did this due to the incredibly high numbers of sick, wounded , and dying soldiers of the Crimean war. Sophia Jex Blake was a champion for the idea of medically educated women in late 19th century Great Britain. Finally , we read about Marie Curie, possibly the most famous woman of her time, she revolutionized the science surrounding radiology, winning , a Nobel peace prize. Unfortunately she later paid the ultimate price for her work. These three women clearly faced an obstacle in the medical field, which was heavily dominated by men. It is referenced most blatantly in the introduction to the Florence Nightingale document when the author describes how the military “medical establishment” forced the secretary of war to block prior attempts to allow females into the nurse corps. This was strange to me , because now the opposite connotation is true about nursing , and men are often ridiculed for being nurses.
    These three women were clearly highly motivated, self reliant, and passionate about their work, this was a recipe for success. There were clear attempts to block all three from achieving their goals , for Nightingale it was the “medical establishment” keeping her out for a time, for Blake , it was more of the same, except far more blatant , due to the medical schools changing entry requirements to limit female attendance. Curie I must say most likely had the hardest time of all, as female Physicists or Radiologists were almost unheard of and science was a field in which even fewer exceptions to the “all male” rule seem to exhibit themselves. Science is now I believe more of a bi-gender endeavor , and in my part of the country it almost seems to me that more women than men are interested these days. Medicine , as stated above has changed in the field of nursing almost 180 degrees , where male nurses are the exception to the rule, however I do think that , while it is lessened in recent years , doctors are traditionally pictured as men .

    2. Based on your reading of the documents in the section “Critiques of Marriage, Sexual Norms, and Women’s Fashion” in Chapter 10 of Lives and Voices, discuss the main points of Harriet Martineau’s critique of women’s dress. What does she propose as an alternative? Why did dress reform become a feminist issue?
    As a Man I must say this is one of the reforms I am glad to see in the history of the female experience. This is one of those modern worldly improvements that , being a modern person, I cannot believe ever had to be discussed. It seems absurd to me that it was fashionable for women to wear dresses that literally tortured and often physically harmed them to the extent of breaking bones , and sometimes , as Harriet Martineau details , killed them. She proposed the alternative for this reason, and also because these rib crushing death traps were serving much the same purpose as their non-lethal alternatives. These two points eloquently illustrate why this was one of the most obvious women’s issues of its time.
    3. Based on your reading of the documents in the section “Critiques of Marriage, Sexual Norms, and Women’s Fashion” in Chapter 10 of Lives and Voices, what were Josephine Butler’s views on prostitution and how were they informed by her religious convictions? On what basis did she argue for the repeal of the Contagious Diseases Acts?
    Butler clearly believes that prostitution is a form of “sin” , and she details her pity for them almost immediately at the onset of the document. She clearly discusses their plight as one which was often a last resort or the result of some trickery befalling them. She is very sympathetic in a powerfully religious, pitying sort of way, and her comments clearly illustrate this on many occasions. She goes on to argue against the Contagious Diseases Acts on the grounds that for every prostitute there are (she guesses) up to one hundred “sinful” men, who in turn spread the diseases to pure wives and “unconscious infants”. Therefore a set of laws binding the woman of “sin” isn’t right due to the lack of laws governing the far larger group she refers to as “sinful men”. Furthermore she also says that the larger group of men who “sin” with these women, are not only more guilty but more dangerous to the state because of it. Therefore these “Contagious Diseases Acts” are unfair as they were currently written.

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